Speaking of soft bashers, (also known as Serpents)
Post# of 148238
(Total Views: 743)
Posted On: 01/23/2021 3:35:52 PM
Re: Evil Rabbit #74037
Speaking of soft bashers, (also known as Serpents), per these two former boiler room operatives, paid bashing is definitely a thing and much more organized than would appear at first glance. This and the Abeona lawsuit are long reads, but I think study is required to fully understand the game as it’s not a simple game being played.
Below are some excerpts from the confessions of 2 former paid bashers. Their tactics, much like those in the Abeona lawsuit, should be very familiar to many of us. These stories could be pure fiction, but I seriously doubt it as I’ve seen these tactics in play with my own eyes. Also note the similarities between both renditions:
Source for the below:
https://boards.fool.com/paid-stock-bashers-lp-13645949.aspx
Former Basher #1:
“I work for a company called F ranklin, A ndrews, K ramer & E delstein in Stamford, CT…The idea behind my group is to bash the price of a company's stock down low enough to where the group of investors who retained our company's services can buy the stock really cheap and perhaps even take it over all together.”
“There are three types of bashers here at Franklin, Andrews, Kramer & Edelstein:
Advanced, Intermediate and Beginner.
An Advanced-level basher (also known as a Silver-Tongued Devil ) would spread false or misleading information about the company. They would deal in facts, countering every long’s post with articles, news reports and opinion surveys that gave a negative impression about the company.
An Intermediate-level basher (also known as a Serpent ) would try to weasel their way into the confidence of longs and create doubt using rumor or innuendo.
Finally, a Beginner-level basher (also known as a Pitchfork ) would attempt to create confusion in the room by distracting other posters with satire, name calling and pointless arguments. The idea was to make sure no serious discussion of the stock could take place. A Pitchfork was usually a basher, but not always. Sometimes, we would throw in a hypster Pitchfork to create the illusion of an argument going on. What was really funny (in a perverse way, I guess) was that the hypster and I sat next to each other, laughing the whole time.”
“I was a Pitchfork. I was paid a base wage of $12 an hour for my services. I was given a $1 bonus for every post over 100 per day as well as a monthly bonus of $100 for every penny the stock had dropped from the previous month. I was also paid a bonus for bashing on weekends. While this may not sound like much, I made a decent, though dishonorable, paycheck.”
“Next, we had to follow certain guidelines on what we could say. We were urged to have an “answer” to every long's question, but we were to frame that answer in a way that ridiculed the questioner for asking such a question. However, we were never to use profanity or vulgarity because that would cause people to ignore us. We were to make fun of people, but in a civil way. The idea was to get “play,” i.e. – reaction from other posters. The more play we got, the more the room would be disrupted. Ignored posters get no play.
One exception would be the hypster – since they were “defending” the stock against our onslaught, they got a little more leeway. People would side with the hypster because they thought he was real since he appeared to be on their side, but was really on ours, setting us up to disrupt the room.”
“In closing, I feel absolutely terrible about this. It's just awful how I've been part of a scam designed to cheat honest, hard-working people out of their investments all for the benefit of a few wealthy people who already have enough money to last a lifetime. These greedy people MUST be stopped…Only by shining the light of truth can we drive these rats back into the darkness from whence they came. Believe me, they don't want publicity.”
Former Basher #2 :
This guy portrays himself as a “pioneer” of using social media to bash stocks. All-caps are emphasis of the original poster:
“MOST BASHING HAPPENS ON DISCUSSION BOARDS AND IN CHAT ROOMS; MOST BASHING HAPPENS IN THE PENNY STOCK AREA OF THE MARKET BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO THE PENNY STOCKS. IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE FOLKS! IT'S A FACT!
“A year ago when I asked broker friends of mine if the internet message boards will have any effect on a stock, they ALL laughed at me and said those idiots having an effect on a stock! Well I asked those same friends this last week, and the answer from all YES! message boards and "shorts"
some) can manipulate with lies, and deceit.”
“Lesson 1: Remember, BASHERS NEVER BASH A BAD STOCK .
Watch the board for stocks with no potential. They never have any bashers. Bashers only go after stocks that are going upwards or have excellent potential to go up. Bashers get left behind, so they want to bring the price down to be able to get in at a great price.
Lesson 2: BASHERS ALWAYS BRING UP OLD NEWS THAT YOU HAVE HEARD MANY TIMES.
New startup companies always have a few bits of bad news. The basher will post this over and over again. The stupid basher will try to make the old news a bit fresher to try to fool you.
Lesson 3: BASHERS POST MANY TIMES A DAY.
They try to wear you out. They comment on everything, every other post, and can answer every question. THEY KNOW IT ALL! There is no positive comment they won't bash. They try to control the board. True longs may have to address the bashers or they will appear to the newbies as being the people with all the information.
Lesson 4: BASHERS WILL LIE TO YOUR FACE.
Never trust a basher. The truth on startup companies is that many mistakes are made and losses happen. The basher will try to make you believe all startup companies make a profit, release financials every quarter and all aspects of the business run smoothly. THIS IS NOT TRUE. THE BASHERS LIE TO YOU. Startup companies can go years without profits, financials and good business, this is the nature of the beast.
Lesson 5: The bashers know YOU CAN'T VERIFY THEIR STATEMENTS.
That's why they make the statements they do.
Lesson 6: The bashers PLAY ON YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.
They can lie about information and you couldn't know the difference (unless you have done your assessment of the company and know the truth and facts).
Lesson 7: Bashers play on your lack of patience.
YOU have held a stock for a while. You knew it will be a big stock someday, but the BASHER CAN GET TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOUR GAIN. That's when the basher is best. You are tired. You have forgotten the goal for the stock was to hold it for one year. The basher is bothersome, so you dump it on a bad day. Some others also dump. Then you get mad for your loss and return to let everyone know how mad you are. Then you turn into a basher as well. THE BASHER HAS WON, AND GAINED A NEW PARTNER, TOO.
Lesson 8: BRING THE PRICE DOWN.
That is the basher's job. The truth is not important. Lies are the norm. Post continuously on the board every day. They are trying to hit the newbies visiting the board. They are trying to wear out the longs on the board. They do whatever it takes to wear the longs out.
Lesson 9: BASHERS WILL TRY TO CREATE DOUBT AND GET YOU TO RESEARCH ITEMS THAT THEY KNOW WILL LEAD TO THE CREATION OF DOUBT IN YOU AND IN OTHER STOCKHOLDERS.
A BASHERS HANDBOOK: know the enemy who wishes to steal your money!
Do not underestimate a bashers influence on a stock.
BASHERS DO THE FOLLOWING:
1. Stay anonymous
2. Use 10% fact. 90% suggestion. The facts will lend credibility to your suggestions.
3. Let others help you learn about the stock. Build rapport and a support base before initiating your bashing routine.
4. Enter w/ humor and reply to all who reply to you.
5. Use multiple ISP's, handles and aliases.
6. Use two (2) or more aliases to simulate a discussion.
7. Do not start with an all-out slam of the stock. Build to it.
8. Identify your foes (hypsters) and the boards "guru" Use them to your advantage. Lead them do not follow their lead.
9. Only bash until the tide/momentum turns. Let doubt carry it the rest of the way.
10. Give the appearance of being open minded.
11. Be bold in your statements. People follow strength.
12. Write headlines in caps with catchy statements.
13. Pour it on as your position gains momentum. Not your personality.
14. Don't worry about being labeled a "basher". Newbies won't know your history.
15. When identified put up a brief fight, then back off. Return in an hour unless your foe is weak in reasoning powers.
16. Your goal is to limit the momentum of the run. Not to tank the company or create a plunge in the stock; be subtle and consistent.
17. Kill the dreams of profits, not the company or the stock.
18. Use questions to create critical thinking. Statements to reinforce facts.
19. DO NOT LIE, DO NOT NAME CALL and DO NOT USE PROFANITY.
20. Encourage people to call the company. 99% won't. They'll take your word for claims made. If they do call you can always find something that is inaccurate in how they report their findings.
21. Discourage people for taking the companies word for anything. Encourage them to call the company. They won't out of laziness.
22. If the companies history/PR's are negative constantly point to that. Compile a list of this data prior to beginning your efforts.
23. If the price rises blame it on the hype or the PR, temporary mass reaction, the market, etc. Anything but the stock itself.
24. If other posters share your concerns, play on that and share theirs too.
25. Always cite low volume, even when it's not.
26. Three or four aliases can dominate a board and wear down the longs.
27. Bait the hypsters into personal debates putting their focus/efforts on you and not the stock or facts. Divert their attention from facts. Show them the facts from a "different angle."
28. Promote other stocks that would-be investors can turn to instead of the one you’re bashing.
30. Do not fall for challenges on the "values" of what you are doing, it's a game and you are playing it with your own rules.
GRADE YOUR FAVORITE BASHER:
Advanced Basher: Will join the message board early and actually "pump" the stock with positives; this basher is very intelligent, has the facts of the company, actually helps longs with Due Diligence and generally gets the confidence of the stockholders. Then, when the stock hits their price, the tone will change and they will start asking longs to check into this and check into that. The seeds of doubt are being planted. This basher will then start using all the tactics listed on this page to create seeds of doubt. ALWAYS LOOK AT THE PROFILE OF A PERSON YOU SUSPECT. ASK WHAT STOCKS THEY'VE "SUPPORTED" IN THE PAST AND CHECK OUT THE MESSAGE BOARD. An honest person will have a positive track record that can be followed. I strongly believe that a contrarian view is needed but this person is out to steal your money and does it by deception and creates fear after gaining confidence! BEWARE, this is the most clever basher and the hardest to spot.
Grade A Basher:
Posts lots of old news, responds to all positive posts with a negative side. Never responds to being called a basher, never posts on another board. Can spend up to 80 hours a week bashing a stock.
Grade B Basher:
Very good way with words, always claims to be your "friend" taking the positive poster into confidence, never posts on another board, spends about 60 hours a week.
Grade C Basher:
Spends less time than the others but is somewhat effective and gets a C grade due to getting excited when bashers rules say not to get excited, spends about 40 hours a week.
Grade D Basher:
Needs to learn the basics about being convincing when making a negative statement. Spends a good amount of time working the stock, maybe 20 hours a week.
Grade F Basher:
A complete idiot, most readers are not convinced he knows anything about stocks in general. The type that says a stock "sucks", but gives no rationale, shows up every so often but no regular schedule.
WHY BASH? : MONEY (the usual reason), SPORT, ENTERTAINMENT. Some bashers are compelled to bash because they are inherently a part of the dark side of life so they must do it. It's a sad fact but never the less, a fact. It's life so you must learn how to deal with it or become a victim.”
Below are some excerpts from the confessions of 2 former paid bashers. Their tactics, much like those in the Abeona lawsuit, should be very familiar to many of us. These stories could be pure fiction, but I seriously doubt it as I’ve seen these tactics in play with my own eyes. Also note the similarities between both renditions:
Source for the below:
https://boards.fool.com/paid-stock-bashers-lp-13645949.aspx
Former Basher #1:
“I work for a company called F ranklin, A ndrews, K ramer & E delstein in Stamford, CT…The idea behind my group is to bash the price of a company's stock down low enough to where the group of investors who retained our company's services can buy the stock really cheap and perhaps even take it over all together.”
“There are three types of bashers here at Franklin, Andrews, Kramer & Edelstein:
Advanced, Intermediate and Beginner.
An Advanced-level basher (also known as a Silver-Tongued Devil ) would spread false or misleading information about the company. They would deal in facts, countering every long’s post with articles, news reports and opinion surveys that gave a negative impression about the company.
An Intermediate-level basher (also known as a Serpent ) would try to weasel their way into the confidence of longs and create doubt using rumor or innuendo.
Finally, a Beginner-level basher (also known as a Pitchfork ) would attempt to create confusion in the room by distracting other posters with satire, name calling and pointless arguments. The idea was to make sure no serious discussion of the stock could take place. A Pitchfork was usually a basher, but not always. Sometimes, we would throw in a hypster Pitchfork to create the illusion of an argument going on. What was really funny (in a perverse way, I guess) was that the hypster and I sat next to each other, laughing the whole time.”
“I was a Pitchfork. I was paid a base wage of $12 an hour for my services. I was given a $1 bonus for every post over 100 per day as well as a monthly bonus of $100 for every penny the stock had dropped from the previous month. I was also paid a bonus for bashing on weekends. While this may not sound like much, I made a decent, though dishonorable, paycheck.”
“Next, we had to follow certain guidelines on what we could say. We were urged to have an “answer” to every long's question, but we were to frame that answer in a way that ridiculed the questioner for asking such a question. However, we were never to use profanity or vulgarity because that would cause people to ignore us. We were to make fun of people, but in a civil way. The idea was to get “play,” i.e. – reaction from other posters. The more play we got, the more the room would be disrupted. Ignored posters get no play.
One exception would be the hypster – since they were “defending” the stock against our onslaught, they got a little more leeway. People would side with the hypster because they thought he was real since he appeared to be on their side, but was really on ours, setting us up to disrupt the room.”
“In closing, I feel absolutely terrible about this. It's just awful how I've been part of a scam designed to cheat honest, hard-working people out of their investments all for the benefit of a few wealthy people who already have enough money to last a lifetime. These greedy people MUST be stopped…Only by shining the light of truth can we drive these rats back into the darkness from whence they came. Believe me, they don't want publicity.”
Former Basher #2 :
This guy portrays himself as a “pioneer” of using social media to bash stocks. All-caps are emphasis of the original poster:
“MOST BASHING HAPPENS ON DISCUSSION BOARDS AND IN CHAT ROOMS; MOST BASHING HAPPENS IN THE PENNY STOCK AREA OF THE MARKET BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO THE PENNY STOCKS. IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE FOLKS! IT'S A FACT!
“A year ago when I asked broker friends of mine if the internet message boards will have any effect on a stock, they ALL laughed at me and said those idiots having an effect on a stock! Well I asked those same friends this last week, and the answer from all YES! message boards and "shorts"
some) can manipulate with lies, and deceit.” “Lesson 1: Remember, BASHERS NEVER BASH A BAD STOCK .
Watch the board for stocks with no potential. They never have any bashers. Bashers only go after stocks that are going upwards or have excellent potential to go up. Bashers get left behind, so they want to bring the price down to be able to get in at a great price.
Lesson 2: BASHERS ALWAYS BRING UP OLD NEWS THAT YOU HAVE HEARD MANY TIMES.
New startup companies always have a few bits of bad news. The basher will post this over and over again. The stupid basher will try to make the old news a bit fresher to try to fool you.
Lesson 3: BASHERS POST MANY TIMES A DAY.
They try to wear you out. They comment on everything, every other post, and can answer every question. THEY KNOW IT ALL! There is no positive comment they won't bash. They try to control the board. True longs may have to address the bashers or they will appear to the newbies as being the people with all the information.
Lesson 4: BASHERS WILL LIE TO YOUR FACE.
Never trust a basher. The truth on startup companies is that many mistakes are made and losses happen. The basher will try to make you believe all startup companies make a profit, release financials every quarter and all aspects of the business run smoothly. THIS IS NOT TRUE. THE BASHERS LIE TO YOU. Startup companies can go years without profits, financials and good business, this is the nature of the beast.
Lesson 5: The bashers know YOU CAN'T VERIFY THEIR STATEMENTS.
That's why they make the statements they do.
Lesson 6: The bashers PLAY ON YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.
They can lie about information and you couldn't know the difference (unless you have done your assessment of the company and know the truth and facts).
Lesson 7: Bashers play on your lack of patience.
YOU have held a stock for a while. You knew it will be a big stock someday, but the BASHER CAN GET TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOUR GAIN. That's when the basher is best. You are tired. You have forgotten the goal for the stock was to hold it for one year. The basher is bothersome, so you dump it on a bad day. Some others also dump. Then you get mad for your loss and return to let everyone know how mad you are. Then you turn into a basher as well. THE BASHER HAS WON, AND GAINED A NEW PARTNER, TOO.
Lesson 8: BRING THE PRICE DOWN.
That is the basher's job. The truth is not important. Lies are the norm. Post continuously on the board every day. They are trying to hit the newbies visiting the board. They are trying to wear out the longs on the board. They do whatever it takes to wear the longs out.
Lesson 9: BASHERS WILL TRY TO CREATE DOUBT AND GET YOU TO RESEARCH ITEMS THAT THEY KNOW WILL LEAD TO THE CREATION OF DOUBT IN YOU AND IN OTHER STOCKHOLDERS.
A BASHERS HANDBOOK: know the enemy who wishes to steal your money!
Do not underestimate a bashers influence on a stock.
BASHERS DO THE FOLLOWING:
1. Stay anonymous
2. Use 10% fact. 90% suggestion. The facts will lend credibility to your suggestions.
3. Let others help you learn about the stock. Build rapport and a support base before initiating your bashing routine.
4. Enter w/ humor and reply to all who reply to you.
5. Use multiple ISP's, handles and aliases.
6. Use two (2) or more aliases to simulate a discussion.
7. Do not start with an all-out slam of the stock. Build to it.
8. Identify your foes (hypsters) and the boards "guru" Use them to your advantage. Lead them do not follow their lead.
9. Only bash until the tide/momentum turns. Let doubt carry it the rest of the way.
10. Give the appearance of being open minded.
11. Be bold in your statements. People follow strength.
12. Write headlines in caps with catchy statements.
13. Pour it on as your position gains momentum. Not your personality.
14. Don't worry about being labeled a "basher". Newbies won't know your history.
15. When identified put up a brief fight, then back off. Return in an hour unless your foe is weak in reasoning powers.
16. Your goal is to limit the momentum of the run. Not to tank the company or create a plunge in the stock; be subtle and consistent.
17. Kill the dreams of profits, not the company or the stock.
18. Use questions to create critical thinking. Statements to reinforce facts.
19. DO NOT LIE, DO NOT NAME CALL and DO NOT USE PROFANITY.
20. Encourage people to call the company. 99% won't. They'll take your word for claims made. If they do call you can always find something that is inaccurate in how they report their findings.
21. Discourage people for taking the companies word for anything. Encourage them to call the company. They won't out of laziness.
22. If the companies history/PR's are negative constantly point to that. Compile a list of this data prior to beginning your efforts.
23. If the price rises blame it on the hype or the PR, temporary mass reaction, the market, etc. Anything but the stock itself.
24. If other posters share your concerns, play on that and share theirs too.
25. Always cite low volume, even when it's not.
26. Three or four aliases can dominate a board and wear down the longs.
27. Bait the hypsters into personal debates putting their focus/efforts on you and not the stock or facts. Divert their attention from facts. Show them the facts from a "different angle."
28. Promote other stocks that would-be investors can turn to instead of the one you’re bashing.
30. Do not fall for challenges on the "values" of what you are doing, it's a game and you are playing it with your own rules.
GRADE YOUR FAVORITE BASHER:
Advanced Basher: Will join the message board early and actually "pump" the stock with positives; this basher is very intelligent, has the facts of the company, actually helps longs with Due Diligence and generally gets the confidence of the stockholders. Then, when the stock hits their price, the tone will change and they will start asking longs to check into this and check into that. The seeds of doubt are being planted. This basher will then start using all the tactics listed on this page to create seeds of doubt. ALWAYS LOOK AT THE PROFILE OF A PERSON YOU SUSPECT. ASK WHAT STOCKS THEY'VE "SUPPORTED" IN THE PAST AND CHECK OUT THE MESSAGE BOARD. An honest person will have a positive track record that can be followed. I strongly believe that a contrarian view is needed but this person is out to steal your money and does it by deception and creates fear after gaining confidence! BEWARE, this is the most clever basher and the hardest to spot.
Grade A Basher:
Posts lots of old news, responds to all positive posts with a negative side. Never responds to being called a basher, never posts on another board. Can spend up to 80 hours a week bashing a stock.
Grade B Basher:
Very good way with words, always claims to be your "friend" taking the positive poster into confidence, never posts on another board, spends about 60 hours a week.
Grade C Basher:
Spends less time than the others but is somewhat effective and gets a C grade due to getting excited when bashers rules say not to get excited, spends about 40 hours a week.
Grade D Basher:
Needs to learn the basics about being convincing when making a negative statement. Spends a good amount of time working the stock, maybe 20 hours a week.
Grade F Basher:
A complete idiot, most readers are not convinced he knows anything about stocks in general. The type that says a stock "sucks", but gives no rationale, shows up every so often but no regular schedule.
WHY BASH? : MONEY (the usual reason), SPORT, ENTERTAINMENT. Some bashers are compelled to bash because they are inherently a part of the dark side of life so they must do it. It's a sad fact but never the less, a fact. It's life so you must learn how to deal with it or become a victim.”
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