MGK2— You suggested the piece was gonna be co
Post# of 155310
(Total Views: 1877)
Posted On: 04/03/2025 12:49:27 AM
MGK2—
You suggested the piece was gonna be concise… so I read it.
680 words? To basically say what most of us already know? Coulda been done in half the words…
That’s the problem I have with most of your posts—and, apparently the posts you highlight—they gussy up what most of us on this board already know. And they are excessively wordy—which you alluded to in your introduction… so this wordy response is fair game, right?
You are talking to the converted… and most of us are very conversant/up-to-date with what’s going on with leronlimab. So the post might have been appropriate for newbies and those ignorant of leronlimab’s promise. But for this board—c’mon! Ya kinda belittle our awareness of the promise that this drug has…
Two specific problems I have with Tiny’s argument, and your highlighting the post:
In the comparison of leronlimab with Trodelvy, under Tumor Shrinkage we have “some complete responses; numbers coming at ESMO.” Under Complete Remissions we have “confirmed complete remissions; final count revealed at ESMO.” And for Median Survival we have “>50% alive at 12 months.” All promising… but when you base most of your argument on essentially “final numbers at ESMO,” well why not wait for ESMO? Aren’t you getting ahead of yourself? And we all know generalizing from incomplete evidence is worse than… incomplete evidence.
As far as the “real toxicity” that comes with Trodelvy,” well, 4 out of 10 coming down with neutropenia sounds pretty bad… Now I don’t have a medical degree… but let me decode my experience with chemo for you. I received oxaliplatin and capecitabine for Stage 3 locally advanced colon cancer in the spring/summer of 22 (after 10 inches of my lower colon was surgically removed). After three or four rounds of treatment I was told my bloodwork revealed neutropenia and was given a couple pre-filled syringes to shoot myself up with at home. Did a couple injections, more bloodwork. I was fine. No further problems. So the idea that neutropenia is “classic, brutal chemo” was certainly not my experience. And I wonder why Tiny highlighted neutropenia. I’d be more worried about the severe diarrhea… If it was anything like the glycol 3350 laxative I took for my colonoscopy-surgery, well, that was no fun even if it wasn’t unexpected or explosive!
So, I don’t want to make the same mistake as Tiny—generalizing from limited evidence. Maybe I should have been more worried about the neutropenia. (My oncologists didn’t make like it was a big deal… maybe he was being low-key just to spare me worry). But it certainly wasn’t brutal chemo. Perhaps some other medical professionals could weigh in?
Back in 22 I asked my oncologist about leronlimab… Of course he hadn’t heard about it. I would have taken it in a heartbeat! From all I’ve read since it would have been useful. Perhaps curative. The lack of serious adverse effects is one of leronlimabs greatest attributes…. Along with the promise of efficacy in both chronic and acute diseases. But we all know that!
No one is more bullish about leronlimab than yours truly. Bullish—I’m a fuckin Mastadon! But generalizing from incomplete evidence, and scaring people with chemo-fear… I really don’t get it. I trust the science. And we are not there yet. So close! And it’s hard to wait. Listen--I applaud Tiny’s and MGK2’s enthusiasm. But keep it in your pants. And don’t use science-talk to support unscientific conclusions. It is an insult to our collective intelligence. Even if it may make us feel good in the short run. And the danger in hyping this is not what we choose to believe about leronlimab—it’s what the medical pros believe. 45 minutes and a poster competing with some 400 other posters at a busy conference? I’ll wait for the CRC trial results and any further news about mTNBC before I wet myself. And when the share price begins to head north I'll let myself dream of the South Seas...
Of course any partnership news would rile me up too! And Pestell's conference talk in May could be the catalyst we have been waiting for. But at this point, anything less is just talk. And we all know... talk is cheap.
And MGK2—you have the research skills to really make a contribution. So stick with the science instead of the cheerleading.
—Sherlock—
You suggested the piece was gonna be concise… so I read it.
680 words? To basically say what most of us already know? Coulda been done in half the words…
That’s the problem I have with most of your posts—and, apparently the posts you highlight—they gussy up what most of us on this board already know. And they are excessively wordy—which you alluded to in your introduction… so this wordy response is fair game, right?
You are talking to the converted… and most of us are very conversant/up-to-date with what’s going on with leronlimab. So the post might have been appropriate for newbies and those ignorant of leronlimab’s promise. But for this board—c’mon! Ya kinda belittle our awareness of the promise that this drug has…
Two specific problems I have with Tiny’s argument, and your highlighting the post:
In the comparison of leronlimab with Trodelvy, under Tumor Shrinkage we have “some complete responses; numbers coming at ESMO.” Under Complete Remissions we have “confirmed complete remissions; final count revealed at ESMO.” And for Median Survival we have “>50% alive at 12 months.” All promising… but when you base most of your argument on essentially “final numbers at ESMO,” well why not wait for ESMO? Aren’t you getting ahead of yourself? And we all know generalizing from incomplete evidence is worse than… incomplete evidence.
As far as the “real toxicity” that comes with Trodelvy,” well, 4 out of 10 coming down with neutropenia sounds pretty bad… Now I don’t have a medical degree… but let me decode my experience with chemo for you. I received oxaliplatin and capecitabine for Stage 3 locally advanced colon cancer in the spring/summer of 22 (after 10 inches of my lower colon was surgically removed). After three or four rounds of treatment I was told my bloodwork revealed neutropenia and was given a couple pre-filled syringes to shoot myself up with at home. Did a couple injections, more bloodwork. I was fine. No further problems. So the idea that neutropenia is “classic, brutal chemo” was certainly not my experience. And I wonder why Tiny highlighted neutropenia. I’d be more worried about the severe diarrhea… If it was anything like the glycol 3350 laxative I took for my colonoscopy-surgery, well, that was no fun even if it wasn’t unexpected or explosive!
So, I don’t want to make the same mistake as Tiny—generalizing from limited evidence. Maybe I should have been more worried about the neutropenia. (My oncologists didn’t make like it was a big deal… maybe he was being low-key just to spare me worry). But it certainly wasn’t brutal chemo. Perhaps some other medical professionals could weigh in?
Back in 22 I asked my oncologist about leronlimab… Of course he hadn’t heard about it. I would have taken it in a heartbeat! From all I’ve read since it would have been useful. Perhaps curative. The lack of serious adverse effects is one of leronlimabs greatest attributes…. Along with the promise of efficacy in both chronic and acute diseases. But we all know that!
No one is more bullish about leronlimab than yours truly. Bullish—I’m a fuckin Mastadon! But generalizing from incomplete evidence, and scaring people with chemo-fear… I really don’t get it. I trust the science. And we are not there yet. So close! And it’s hard to wait. Listen--I applaud Tiny’s and MGK2’s enthusiasm. But keep it in your pants. And don’t use science-talk to support unscientific conclusions. It is an insult to our collective intelligence. Even if it may make us feel good in the short run. And the danger in hyping this is not what we choose to believe about leronlimab—it’s what the medical pros believe. 45 minutes and a poster competing with some 400 other posters at a busy conference? I’ll wait for the CRC trial results and any further news about mTNBC before I wet myself. And when the share price begins to head north I'll let myself dream of the South Seas...
Of course any partnership news would rile me up too! And Pestell's conference talk in May could be the catalyst we have been waiting for. But at this point, anything less is just talk. And we all know... talk is cheap.
And MGK2—you have the research skills to really make a contribution. So stick with the science instead of the cheerleading.
—Sherlock—
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