Hand Them a S--t Pie So Gross They Will Choke on It”: Michael Cohen Predicts Trump’s Post-Presidency Legal Drama
The president’s former fixer knows his legal playbook—“I fucking wrote it”—and has some advice for the various parties pursuing cases against Trump, some of which rely on Cohen as a witness.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/12/micha...ktail_Hour
By Emily Jane Fox
December 21, 2020
What he’s doing is he’s appealing to the far-right base. Especially if they’re racist. They like Trump’s rhetoric because Trump likes the status quo of white power.
It explains why his base has stuck with him, but it also explains why so many people around him have been intoxicated by him and why so many have gotten in legal trouble. We’re now at a point where Rudy Giuliani looks like he’s in real trouble. Steve Bannon looks like he’s in real trouble. Is Trump going to just pardon everyone?
No. Let me again dig deep into the mentality of Donald Trump. Donald Trump cares for no one or anything except for himself. That includes his own children. Let’s talk about the pardons. Will Donald Trump pardon these individuals, which he certainly has the power to do? No. Because the first thing he’s evaluating when deciding who to pardon and who not to is: What’s in it for me?
What you have to understand is that if he pardons Jared Kushner, and it would be considered a pre-pardon because Jared hasn’t been accused of any crimes yet, Jared loses his Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. That means that Jared could be compelled to testify and the questions that will be asked of him will undoubtedly be about Donald Trump.
He’s now thinking, Wait a minute, if I give this guy a pass to keep his ass out of prison, he may be putting mine in. I’m not so sure he’s going to be doing that. He has to really evaluate who could pose problems for him, knowing that the attorney general has the right to his taxes and so does the D.A. in New York, and there will be a multitude of cases coming out of that situation. So the question becomes: if I give someone a pardon, how can that hurt me rather than help me?
That’s some real popcorn shit. Do you think he will step down a day early so Mike Pence can pardon him?
No. That’s not going to happen. First of all, Donald Trump will never step down. Let’s go back to his fragile ego. That means he was forced to step down by small, simple people. That tattoos the stamp of loser to his forehead.
You brought up the multitude of investigations that lie ahead for him. You have spent dozens and dozens of hours cooperating with investigators from the Mueller team, the Southern District of New York, Congress, state attorneys general. Are you still assisting with anything, and what do you think the kinds of charges could be down the line?
That’s a great question, one that I can partially answer. I have invested more hours and more dollars than I care to even include. As Letitia James, our attorney general [of New York], stated, her entire investigation stems from my hearings as well as my testimony to them. I don’t want to discuss with you what the sum and substance of my conversations with them were. That wouldn’t be right to jeopardize the potential litigation with him, the children, the Trump Organization.
But the one thing that I can tell you about the people I met, about the attorney general or the district attorney’s people, is that they’re very well prepared. They are locked and loaded with a very specific task: to bring justice to the crimes they have been investigating and that they know are legitimate.
You’re also engaged with civil lawsuits with the Trump Organization, stemming from the funds you’ve outlaid—millions of dollars—to defend yourself. A lot of it had to with actions you took at the direction of your former boss. Where does that stand?
I have not paid out the millions. I owe millions. There are firms that are still owed money. Everything that I did, I did at the direction of, and for the benefit of, Donald J. Trump. What bothers me the most is the parts that had nothing to do with the Trump Organization [that] I’m not asking for him to reimburse me for. Let’s talk about Stormy Daniels, Stephanie Clifford. When Donald Trump found out she was going to be on 60 Minutes, he called me up and said, How is this possible? We have an NDA. And it’s a very heavy-handed NDA.
He said, I want you to file an injunction preventing her from appearing on 60 Minutes. Then it became a civil lawsuit that Stephanie Clifford brought against Trump and where we said the affair never happened. What benefit do I have out of this? The case is proceeding. We’ve already deposed general counsel. We just deposed Eric Trump the other day. He basically deferred every question to the general counsel.
It’s a shit show of a proportion that I’ve never seen. But the nice thing is that I know how they play the game. If you’re willing to stick it out, like the A.G. did in the Trump University case, you will hand them a shit pie so gross they will choke on it.
Do you know how stupid Trump is on this one? ... You stick it out all the way to the end and then you take them to trial, which I intend to do. And then I’m going to sue them for damages. I’m going to sue them for everything, which is what the lawsuit is all about. With Trump, you can’t give up. If you show that first sign of weakness, they’ll take advantage.
That you know the strategy from the inside…
Know it? I fucking wrote it.
The fact that you’re recalling these conversations with Trump makes me think about how you were in touch and talked so often. Do you think you’ll ever talk to him again?
I can’t. I can’t. As you know, the damage that he’s caused me in order to protect his own ass is so significant. He took away the thing that I cherish the most: my family’s happiness. The money I lost, it’s sickening how much, but I don’t care about that. I’ll make it back somehow.
And if I can’t, I’ll live with whatever I possibly can. He destroyed my family’s happiness. The sadness and loneliness that existed when I was up in Otisville [federal prison], I could never forgive. There was no reason for him to do what he did. He did it to protect himself, at my expense, and without even letting me know.
You asked an interesting question when we were in that diner in the Hamptons. You asked me if I would take a bullet for the president. And I would have. And had he told me that this is what I needed to do, at least we could have had a conversation about it and my family’s happiness wouldn’t have been destroyed. Everything with him is always underhanded and it’s dirty. He held me responsible for his dirty deeds. The court held me responsible for Donald Trump’s dirty deeds. For that, I could never, ever forgive him.
The president’s former fixer knows his legal playbook—“I fucking wrote it”—and has some advice for the various parties pursuing cases against Trump, some of which rely on Cohen as a witness.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/12/micha...ktail_Hour
By Emily Jane Fox
December 21, 2020
What he’s doing is he’s appealing to the far-right base. Especially if they’re racist. They like Trump’s rhetoric because Trump likes the status quo of white power.
It explains why his base has stuck with him, but it also explains why so many people around him have been intoxicated by him and why so many have gotten in legal trouble. We’re now at a point where Rudy Giuliani looks like he’s in real trouble. Steve Bannon looks like he’s in real trouble. Is Trump going to just pardon everyone?
No. Let me again dig deep into the mentality of Donald Trump. Donald Trump cares for no one or anything except for himself. That includes his own children. Let’s talk about the pardons. Will Donald Trump pardon these individuals, which he certainly has the power to do? No. Because the first thing he’s evaluating when deciding who to pardon and who not to is: What’s in it for me?
What you have to understand is that if he pardons Jared Kushner, and it would be considered a pre-pardon because Jared hasn’t been accused of any crimes yet, Jared loses his Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. That means that Jared could be compelled to testify and the questions that will be asked of him will undoubtedly be about Donald Trump.
He’s now thinking, Wait a minute, if I give this guy a pass to keep his ass out of prison, he may be putting mine in. I’m not so sure he’s going to be doing that. He has to really evaluate who could pose problems for him, knowing that the attorney general has the right to his taxes and so does the D.A. in New York, and there will be a multitude of cases coming out of that situation. So the question becomes: if I give someone a pardon, how can that hurt me rather than help me?
That’s some real popcorn shit. Do you think he will step down a day early so Mike Pence can pardon him?
No. That’s not going to happen. First of all, Donald Trump will never step down. Let’s go back to his fragile ego. That means he was forced to step down by small, simple people. That tattoos the stamp of loser to his forehead.
You brought up the multitude of investigations that lie ahead for him. You have spent dozens and dozens of hours cooperating with investigators from the Mueller team, the Southern District of New York, Congress, state attorneys general. Are you still assisting with anything, and what do you think the kinds of charges could be down the line?
That’s a great question, one that I can partially answer. I have invested more hours and more dollars than I care to even include. As Letitia James, our attorney general [of New York], stated, her entire investigation stems from my hearings as well as my testimony to them. I don’t want to discuss with you what the sum and substance of my conversations with them were. That wouldn’t be right to jeopardize the potential litigation with him, the children, the Trump Organization.
But the one thing that I can tell you about the people I met, about the attorney general or the district attorney’s people, is that they’re very well prepared. They are locked and loaded with a very specific task: to bring justice to the crimes they have been investigating and that they know are legitimate.
You’re also engaged with civil lawsuits with the Trump Organization, stemming from the funds you’ve outlaid—millions of dollars—to defend yourself. A lot of it had to with actions you took at the direction of your former boss. Where does that stand?
I have not paid out the millions. I owe millions. There are firms that are still owed money. Everything that I did, I did at the direction of, and for the benefit of, Donald J. Trump. What bothers me the most is the parts that had nothing to do with the Trump Organization [that] I’m not asking for him to reimburse me for. Let’s talk about Stormy Daniels, Stephanie Clifford. When Donald Trump found out she was going to be on 60 Minutes, he called me up and said, How is this possible? We have an NDA. And it’s a very heavy-handed NDA.
He said, I want you to file an injunction preventing her from appearing on 60 Minutes. Then it became a civil lawsuit that Stephanie Clifford brought against Trump and where we said the affair never happened. What benefit do I have out of this? The case is proceeding. We’ve already deposed general counsel. We just deposed Eric Trump the other day. He basically deferred every question to the general counsel.
It’s a shit show of a proportion that I’ve never seen. But the nice thing is that I know how they play the game. If you’re willing to stick it out, like the A.G. did in the Trump University case, you will hand them a shit pie so gross they will choke on it.
Do you know how stupid Trump is on this one? ... You stick it out all the way to the end and then you take them to trial, which I intend to do. And then I’m going to sue them for damages. I’m going to sue them for everything, which is what the lawsuit is all about. With Trump, you can’t give up. If you show that first sign of weakness, they’ll take advantage.
That you know the strategy from the inside…
Know it? I fucking wrote it.
The fact that you’re recalling these conversations with Trump makes me think about how you were in touch and talked so often. Do you think you’ll ever talk to him again?
I can’t. I can’t. As you know, the damage that he’s caused me in order to protect his own ass is so significant. He took away the thing that I cherish the most: my family’s happiness. The money I lost, it’s sickening how much, but I don’t care about that. I’ll make it back somehow.
And if I can’t, I’ll live with whatever I possibly can. He destroyed my family’s happiness. The sadness and loneliness that existed when I was up in Otisville [federal prison], I could never forgive. There was no reason for him to do what he did. He did it to protect himself, at my expense, and without even letting me know.
You asked an interesting question when we were in that diner in the Hamptons. You asked me if I would take a bullet for the president. And I would have. And had he told me that this is what I needed to do, at least we could have had a conversation about it and my family’s happiness wouldn’t have been destroyed. Everything with him is always underhanded and it’s dirty. He held me responsible for his dirty deeds. The court held me responsible for Donald Trump’s dirty deeds. For that, I could never, ever forgive him.
