people eventually get what they ask for-whether it was to seek popularity it was popular for people during school to say they were stupid- they did a real good 24/7 acting job reinforcing their verbalizations
your reference to bb as away to describe otc stocks is a bit confusing since the ceo is called bb - otcbb is normal abbrev
puzzled by your mm comment-do you work for a mm? see posts by 4kids9pets ,7-10-111 re mm's also
despite an unprecedented amount of politicization of the SEC during the previous admin w apparent orders to destroy these pennies bc all business is evil and must be destroyed (personally saw the liberal sympathetic documentary on a liberal network myself) the SEC issued what was supposed to be significant restraints against some mm practices 3-1-11- though I have no evidence such was enforced
brokers -mm's dtcc etc were greenlighted to destroy these low pennies and thus thousands were restricted ,mostly without notice or due process,tying up longs stocks without notice while brokers and others shorted such stocks to .0001, probably destroying thousands of longs like my best friend who dragged me into pennies at about the same time said manipulation took over.
I gave up talking to brokers also-dumb is as dumb does-people dont even know the info they should know in the fields they get their living from
all brokers i talked to openly hated pennies and were almost totally ignorant re such-my friend made a 40 fold return in 6 months w no dd whatsoever- I'm just the opposite -so i used inter alia my accounting economic and law degrees to literally read the financials 10 Q's 10K's of thousands of pennies -sometimes as much as 8 hrs/day um zu save my friends house from foreclosure and his life
but brokers knew practically nothing about pennies and insisted there were no financials on penny stocks- i said of course there are-otcqx and otcqb stocks are required to have financials and current info pink- I kept mentioning OTCQX-which brokers didnt even know existed!! finally the broker looked up otcqx and told me it was a mutual fund!!! (i didnt doubt there was a mutual fund also w that name but his ignorance was laughable in the context of our conversation)
he also told me it was literally impossible to buy a stock at the bid price-that the spread belonged to the mm- thats what mm's want of course, so inter alia they/mm's will hide buy orders or do anything necessary to keep as large a spread as possible- i just gave up talking to brokers- it was like talking to a monkey and to preserve my mind from the deep confusion that engulfed them
Posted By: MaxShockeR
! ! ! - MARKET MAKERS SHAKEDOWN - ! ! !
MARKET MAKERS SHAKEDOWN: MUST READ ...
More and more investors are winning the game nowadays despite all bashers that float through the Internet that has become part of the game. Floor traders of market makers often watch CNBC, news wires and bulletin boards in order to follow the market during trading session. OTC BB market makers (MMs) don't use fundamental and technical analysis. However, what they do realize is a lot of dumb money does use this newest niche charting or TA (Technical Analysis) to run a stock either up or down. To the MMs this is like taking candy from a baby. Simply they will paint the tape and use whatever tactic to affect the charting bands. Thus the public and dumb money they will have eating out of their hands. Effectively the MMs can show a strong stock growing weak by manipulating the close price in order to generate selling volume, delaying trading time to manipulate trading activities, or even stalling the ask without honoring orders to hold a stock price.
MMs follow a simple code of business when making a market in a atock especially an OTC BB / PS. That is the level that stocks will seek that yields the most volume. Now this is very important because they make money on the volume buying at the bid and selling at the ask. In other words, by making the market they are buying low and selling high. Now smart money adheres to that rule, so do all the market makers. They could careless whether the stock is at $22 or at $0.0002. All they care about is the action thus being able to sell stock at the offer (The high) and buy stock at the bid (The low). To increase their profitability, they make the spread as great as possible on as many shares as they can especially if the volume falls off
When they have mostly all "buy" orders, that's not the price that's going to yield the most volume. They need both buy and sells to get the maximum action. Remember, MMs play the volume. If the volume decreases and there are mostly Buys that become a one way volume, Buy volume. So what they do is let the stock run up to a price where it runs out of steam. They fill all the buy orders there that they can and then comes the pullback one way or another naturally or induced. During the pull back they can buy tons of shares and flip them to those averaging down or trying to catch the bounce. At some price, the stock will be relatively stable and yield the most volume. Now that is the average price you will see.
The average price is the point where a stock seeks a level where MMs can profit on the most volume. So during the day that is the price that MMs and momentum/day traders want to see the stock at. Why? Because they know the public and dumb money was chasing the price thing up. Most of the time, the MMs love a flurry of Market Orders which is a dead sign of an artificial run or momentum. Merely it is money in the bank for them. Most get hung in a momentum or day trade or by the tactics of Market makers, who are in the business to screw the public every chance they get. They are merely making the market liquid is their reasoning.
The market makers have created an added complication to the OTCBB's// PS chaos of the already volatile intra-day price movements created by dumb money, momentum and day-traders. MMs can not relate to long-term holders in the OTC BB / PS. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. They feel a large percentage of trades in the OTC BB / PS market consist of short-term or day-trades, MMs merely view the barrage of buy and sell orders as relatively neutral to the market. How they figure it is when the average dumb money buys shares in a company, the MMs feel or rather know with some certainty it is very likely that dumb money will want to sell back those shares relatively quick on the slightest drop.
Now somewhat comfortable with this logic the MMs merely short sells into the buying and attempts to take the stock down in an effort to "shake out" the weak. Since it is tough to know for sure whether a move is the beginning of a trend, or a routine shake out, this type of deception works quite well for the MMs. What the long-termers do to a stock is surprise the MMs because instead of falling, the shorting has no effect and the price goes up. Now that puts the MM at selling low through shorting and thus having to buy high in order to cover.
Boy, when this happens, the MMs are not very happy campers. The investors and traders aren't supposed to be doing that to them. Now it becomes time to pull out every trick and tactic in the book in order to attempt to get a Bear Raid at every dollar/cent mark or percent from where the stock started. Could be a fraction of a penny in smaller priced securities. What MMs do is give you a chance to make a small amount of money for your momentum and day trading style by shorting it at these levels and trying to get a bear raid each time. Each failure is compounding the MMs short position so they let it go to the next level. Now come more deliberate tactics MMs use to coerce Bear Raid or panic selling.
Once the MM is caught short and the strength of the buy is overpowering the MM will want to cover his short position. So the MMs call up one of his friendly MMs and says some like "the weather is sure rough today." The MM along with the other "friendly MM initiates a down tick about the same time. Now this can also be done with a certain amount of shares such as an infamous 100 shares flag. This down tick gives the illusion of weakness designed to hopefully begin the bear raid of selling. The fickle, fearful, day trader, momentum and short term begin to sell out allowing the MM to cover his short position at lower prices. They will move it down quickly to get it to a price of least financial damage. Problem they have is long-term investors in the OTC BB / PS. They start accumulating and buying comes flying in when they take it too far thus the MMs took it to the point of volume again and not only investors the other MMs step in the make money on the spread.
Alas the poor MM does not get to cover. Now comes various tactics like stalling, boxing, or even locking the Bid and Ask for a while. Of course, MMs aggressively deny any sort of collusion designed to fix quotes or spreads.
MMs have a vast resource of tactics and it would take probably more than a lifetime to figure them all out.
So how do investors somehow manage to overcome the obvious deception in OTCBB arena? One answer is indirection trading style by going long which the MMs do not expect. In the war between investors and public companies on the OTC BB / PS vs the MMs, if the MMs have all the advantages due to position or other factors, direct confrontation such as momentum or day trading hitting the stock is a definite death sentence
However, an indirect approach tends to weaken the path of least resistance before slowly overcoming it. The most effective way is long-term investors slowly accumulating and holding thus drawing the MMs out of its defenses making them as naked as their short position. This is war so this slow accumulation and holding for the long term easily achieves the desired effect to force MMs to cover and knock off the tactics or bury themselves deeper.
The MMs when caught will especially use every trick and tactic in the book to get a Bear Raid thus playing on the individual fear of most people. The MMs feel they have information and position advantages over the investors as long as the holding of the stock is in weak hands or short term holders. Since they are OTC BB MMs who believe all OTCBB companies are not worth investing and management is ineffective regardless what is happening within the company. Furthermore, MMs know they are in the position to impose a great deal of influence in OTC BB stocks trading when it suits their needs.
This inherent power of position enables the MMs to move the markets at any time up or down. As a result, the only way to draw them out of their favorable position is going long. Now this does not mean just any company but to effectively nail the MMs, Longs must find the great company on the floor and accumulate long before the MM tactics and games begin
( Posted by SJJMartin and Reposted/Edited by MaxShokeR - Original Source ? )
your reference to bb as away to describe otc stocks is a bit confusing since the ceo is called bb - otcbb is normal abbrev
puzzled by your mm comment-do you work for a mm? see posts by 4kids9pets ,7-10-111 re mm's also
despite an unprecedented amount of politicization of the SEC during the previous admin w apparent orders to destroy these pennies bc all business is evil and must be destroyed (personally saw the liberal sympathetic documentary on a liberal network myself) the SEC issued what was supposed to be significant restraints against some mm practices 3-1-11- though I have no evidence such was enforced
brokers -mm's dtcc etc were greenlighted to destroy these low pennies and thus thousands were restricted ,mostly without notice or due process,tying up longs stocks without notice while brokers and others shorted such stocks to .0001, probably destroying thousands of longs like my best friend who dragged me into pennies at about the same time said manipulation took over.
I gave up talking to brokers also-dumb is as dumb does-people dont even know the info they should know in the fields they get their living from
all brokers i talked to openly hated pennies and were almost totally ignorant re such-my friend made a 40 fold return in 6 months w no dd whatsoever- I'm just the opposite -so i used inter alia my accounting economic and law degrees to literally read the financials 10 Q's 10K's of thousands of pennies -sometimes as much as 8 hrs/day um zu save my friends house from foreclosure and his life
but brokers knew practically nothing about pennies and insisted there were no financials on penny stocks- i said of course there are-otcqx and otcqb stocks are required to have financials and current info pink- I kept mentioning OTCQX-which brokers didnt even know existed!! finally the broker looked up otcqx and told me it was a mutual fund!!! (i didnt doubt there was a mutual fund also w that name but his ignorance was laughable in the context of our conversation)
he also told me it was literally impossible to buy a stock at the bid price-that the spread belonged to the mm- thats what mm's want of course, so inter alia they/mm's will hide buy orders or do anything necessary to keep as large a spread as possible- i just gave up talking to brokers- it was like talking to a monkey and to preserve my mind from the deep confusion that engulfed them
Posted By: MaxShockeR
! ! ! - MARKET MAKERS SHAKEDOWN - ! ! !
MARKET MAKERS SHAKEDOWN: MUST READ ...
More and more investors are winning the game nowadays despite all bashers that float through the Internet that has become part of the game. Floor traders of market makers often watch CNBC, news wires and bulletin boards in order to follow the market during trading session. OTC BB market makers (MMs) don't use fundamental and technical analysis. However, what they do realize is a lot of dumb money does use this newest niche charting or TA (Technical Analysis) to run a stock either up or down. To the MMs this is like taking candy from a baby. Simply they will paint the tape and use whatever tactic to affect the charting bands. Thus the public and dumb money they will have eating out of their hands. Effectively the MMs can show a strong stock growing weak by manipulating the close price in order to generate selling volume, delaying trading time to manipulate trading activities, or even stalling the ask without honoring orders to hold a stock price.
MMs follow a simple code of business when making a market in a atock especially an OTC BB / PS. That is the level that stocks will seek that yields the most volume. Now this is very important because they make money on the volume buying at the bid and selling at the ask. In other words, by making the market they are buying low and selling high. Now smart money adheres to that rule, so do all the market makers. They could careless whether the stock is at $22 or at $0.0002. All they care about is the action thus being able to sell stock at the offer (The high) and buy stock at the bid (The low). To increase their profitability, they make the spread as great as possible on as many shares as they can especially if the volume falls off
When they have mostly all "buy" orders, that's not the price that's going to yield the most volume. They need both buy and sells to get the maximum action. Remember, MMs play the volume. If the volume decreases and there are mostly Buys that become a one way volume, Buy volume. So what they do is let the stock run up to a price where it runs out of steam. They fill all the buy orders there that they can and then comes the pullback one way or another naturally or induced. During the pull back they can buy tons of shares and flip them to those averaging down or trying to catch the bounce. At some price, the stock will be relatively stable and yield the most volume. Now that is the average price you will see.
The average price is the point where a stock seeks a level where MMs can profit on the most volume. So during the day that is the price that MMs and momentum/day traders want to see the stock at. Why? Because they know the public and dumb money was chasing the price thing up. Most of the time, the MMs love a flurry of Market Orders which is a dead sign of an artificial run or momentum. Merely it is money in the bank for them. Most get hung in a momentum or day trade or by the tactics of Market makers, who are in the business to screw the public every chance they get. They are merely making the market liquid is their reasoning.
The market makers have created an added complication to the OTCBB's// PS chaos of the already volatile intra-day price movements created by dumb money, momentum and day-traders. MMs can not relate to long-term holders in the OTC BB / PS. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. They feel a large percentage of trades in the OTC BB / PS market consist of short-term or day-trades, MMs merely view the barrage of buy and sell orders as relatively neutral to the market. How they figure it is when the average dumb money buys shares in a company, the MMs feel or rather know with some certainty it is very likely that dumb money will want to sell back those shares relatively quick on the slightest drop.
Now somewhat comfortable with this logic the MMs merely short sells into the buying and attempts to take the stock down in an effort to "shake out" the weak. Since it is tough to know for sure whether a move is the beginning of a trend, or a routine shake out, this type of deception works quite well for the MMs. What the long-termers do to a stock is surprise the MMs because instead of falling, the shorting has no effect and the price goes up. Now that puts the MM at selling low through shorting and thus having to buy high in order to cover.
Boy, when this happens, the MMs are not very happy campers. The investors and traders aren't supposed to be doing that to them. Now it becomes time to pull out every trick and tactic in the book in order to attempt to get a Bear Raid at every dollar/cent mark or percent from where the stock started. Could be a fraction of a penny in smaller priced securities. What MMs do is give you a chance to make a small amount of money for your momentum and day trading style by shorting it at these levels and trying to get a bear raid each time. Each failure is compounding the MMs short position so they let it go to the next level. Now come more deliberate tactics MMs use to coerce Bear Raid or panic selling.
Once the MM is caught short and the strength of the buy is overpowering the MM will want to cover his short position. So the MMs call up one of his friendly MMs and says some like "the weather is sure rough today." The MM along with the other "friendly MM initiates a down tick about the same time. Now this can also be done with a certain amount of shares such as an infamous 100 shares flag. This down tick gives the illusion of weakness designed to hopefully begin the bear raid of selling. The fickle, fearful, day trader, momentum and short term begin to sell out allowing the MM to cover his short position at lower prices. They will move it down quickly to get it to a price of least financial damage. Problem they have is long-term investors in the OTC BB / PS. They start accumulating and buying comes flying in when they take it too far thus the MMs took it to the point of volume again and not only investors the other MMs step in the make money on the spread.
Alas the poor MM does not get to cover. Now comes various tactics like stalling, boxing, or even locking the Bid and Ask for a while. Of course, MMs aggressively deny any sort of collusion designed to fix quotes or spreads.
MMs have a vast resource of tactics and it would take probably more than a lifetime to figure them all out.
So how do investors somehow manage to overcome the obvious deception in OTCBB arena? One answer is indirection trading style by going long which the MMs do not expect. In the war between investors and public companies on the OTC BB / PS vs the MMs, if the MMs have all the advantages due to position or other factors, direct confrontation such as momentum or day trading hitting the stock is a definite death sentence
However, an indirect approach tends to weaken the path of least resistance before slowly overcoming it. The most effective way is long-term investors slowly accumulating and holding thus drawing the MMs out of its defenses making them as naked as their short position. This is war so this slow accumulation and holding for the long term easily achieves the desired effect to force MMs to cover and knock off the tactics or bury themselves deeper.
The MMs when caught will especially use every trick and tactic in the book to get a Bear Raid thus playing on the individual fear of most people. The MMs feel they have information and position advantages over the investors as long as the holding of the stock is in weak hands or short term holders. Since they are OTC BB MMs who believe all OTCBB companies are not worth investing and management is ineffective regardless what is happening within the company. Furthermore, MMs know they are in the position to impose a great deal of influence in OTC BB stocks trading when it suits their needs.
This inherent power of position enables the MMs to move the markets at any time up or down. As a result, the only way to draw them out of their favorable position is going long. Now this does not mean just any company but to effectively nail the MMs, Longs must find the great company on the floor and accumulate long before the MM tactics and games begin
( Posted by SJJMartin and Reposted/Edited by MaxShokeR - Original Source ? )
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