another mole on the board. however, unlike iLie - this board can use constructive debate, facts, and logic to effectively eviscerate their innuendo and typical tactics/playbook. this poster is the classic "i just wondered in here on a whim but now i am scared due to DD". before long it will be rampant name calling, company bashing, etc etc.
Posted On: 02/22/2016 12:17:25 AM
Posted By: ILOVEHJOE
Re: casey7883 #2920
I'm not defending or bashing anyone. But what was the alternative? They either get toxic funding or they go out of business. I think it's silly that people bash the toxic lenders when those "criminals" are the only reason HJOE still exists
the issue is not so much the effective interest rate, the total return made, or the conversions in general (as a hedge against the numerous entities that WILL fail regardless of viability due to market rejection).
the issue is the false pretense, fraud, and market manipulation that they employ to effectively decimate the entity that they are promoting being a "partner" to and providing resources to make them successful. that is where the wrongdoing and crimes occur. fraud, securities violations, etc. many small companies/micro caps that get into this arena have NO idea of who these people are or how destructive they are until after the fact. they are inevitably led to them as a funding source and are sold a song and dance about how they will be helped and having no idea that the company that is supposed to be helping/partnering with them will effectively destroy them by the toxic conversions. that is fraud.
when the toxic financiers use MMs, message boards, "analyst" reports to spread false rumors, lies, etc and/or work in collusion to pump/dump through small groups to aggressively buy and then sell/short to manipulate the price up and down and then maximize conversion shares through naked shorting - that all falls under securities violations which undermines the entire integrity of the markets. that is immoral and illegal. while any of this is very difficult to "prove" as an individual investor - the process repeats itself indefinitely and the risks of being caught, exposed, prosecuted, and jailed/fined are minimal to the immediate rewards (which is why it is pervasive). further, as SEC documents and 10 min of research shows, once slapped, one can just put another in his stead to "run" the operation while he is on the sidelines (temporarily or permanently) while still directing the action.
once a company gets involved with the toxic financiers (knowingly or unknowingly) it is very difficult to get away. not only do they lose their leverage in the normal financial community to the pariah status, but the immediate assault on their stock (through shorting and conversion) makes their stock unattractive to anyone else to traditionally invest. the company then becomes "dependent" on the same people that put them in the mess while telling them they were "partners." these partners disappear once the companies have no more flexibility in the share structure to continue the conversions as investors realize there is no escaping the death spiral. while this is the obvious outcome for the numerous and overwhelmingly high number of scams and shells that work hand in hand with the lenders to fleece investors, real companies that get unknowingly sucked in have been victims of fraud that is abusive and highly detrimental.
the SEC is obviously overloaded from an enforcement side so it is up to companies that end up getting some financial might to take them to task. this is rare as most of the companies get absolutely buried (the legit ones and not the shells/scams) and have no financial means to fight back and their stock is useless to use as collateral for legal means. when a company DOES break through - all of a sudden it is an all hands on deck assault on the company and stock price to try to destroy investor confidence and bury their leverage.
with HJOE - that didnt happen. the brand resonates. there is a strong investor base. and they obviously have the financial means to fight back. where is that money coming from? either revenues from sales, private investors, and/or stock collateral. obviously the attorneys are getting paid and expect a return or they wouldnt accept the case. that alone suggests the company is viable and growing and not a last ditch effort.
so - keep the subtle bashing and innuendo going. on this board - one can call you out, specifically attack your baseless accusations/innuendo, and NOT get deleted or banned. however, if you lie, make baseless accusations, or just start getting repetitive with your posts/rants - your posts will be deleted and eventually you will be banned as it does nothing but clutter up the board.
when Jaynes and Adamson started HJOE through the reverse merger of the shell - neither of them had any experience in public companies or understanding of the toxic lenders. they were doing $1-2MM in revenues on Hangover shots alone when the PLN fiasco crushed their cash flow and growth and put them in the financial tail spin that led them into the spiral. using the argument that "they knew what they were getting into/in bed with so they are just as guilty as the lenders" will not fly in this case or on this board.
Posted On: 02/22/2016 12:17:25 AM
Posted By: ILOVEHJOE
Re: casey7883 #2920
I'm not defending or bashing anyone. But what was the alternative? They either get toxic funding or they go out of business. I think it's silly that people bash the toxic lenders when those "criminals" are the only reason HJOE still exists
the issue is not so much the effective interest rate, the total return made, or the conversions in general (as a hedge against the numerous entities that WILL fail regardless of viability due to market rejection).
the issue is the false pretense, fraud, and market manipulation that they employ to effectively decimate the entity that they are promoting being a "partner" to and providing resources to make them successful. that is where the wrongdoing and crimes occur. fraud, securities violations, etc. many small companies/micro caps that get into this arena have NO idea of who these people are or how destructive they are until after the fact. they are inevitably led to them as a funding source and are sold a song and dance about how they will be helped and having no idea that the company that is supposed to be helping/partnering with them will effectively destroy them by the toxic conversions. that is fraud.
when the toxic financiers use MMs, message boards, "analyst" reports to spread false rumors, lies, etc and/or work in collusion to pump/dump through small groups to aggressively buy and then sell/short to manipulate the price up and down and then maximize conversion shares through naked shorting - that all falls under securities violations which undermines the entire integrity of the markets. that is immoral and illegal. while any of this is very difficult to "prove" as an individual investor - the process repeats itself indefinitely and the risks of being caught, exposed, prosecuted, and jailed/fined are minimal to the immediate rewards (which is why it is pervasive). further, as SEC documents and 10 min of research shows, once slapped, one can just put another in his stead to "run" the operation while he is on the sidelines (temporarily or permanently) while still directing the action.
once a company gets involved with the toxic financiers (knowingly or unknowingly) it is very difficult to get away. not only do they lose their leverage in the normal financial community to the pariah status, but the immediate assault on their stock (through shorting and conversion) makes their stock unattractive to anyone else to traditionally invest. the company then becomes "dependent" on the same people that put them in the mess while telling them they were "partners." these partners disappear once the companies have no more flexibility in the share structure to continue the conversions as investors realize there is no escaping the death spiral. while this is the obvious outcome for the numerous and overwhelmingly high number of scams and shells that work hand in hand with the lenders to fleece investors, real companies that get unknowingly sucked in have been victims of fraud that is abusive and highly detrimental.
the SEC is obviously overloaded from an enforcement side so it is up to companies that end up getting some financial might to take them to task. this is rare as most of the companies get absolutely buried (the legit ones and not the shells/scams) and have no financial means to fight back and their stock is useless to use as collateral for legal means. when a company DOES break through - all of a sudden it is an all hands on deck assault on the company and stock price to try to destroy investor confidence and bury their leverage.
with HJOE - that didnt happen. the brand resonates. there is a strong investor base. and they obviously have the financial means to fight back. where is that money coming from? either revenues from sales, private investors, and/or stock collateral. obviously the attorneys are getting paid and expect a return or they wouldnt accept the case. that alone suggests the company is viable and growing and not a last ditch effort.
so - keep the subtle bashing and innuendo going. on this board - one can call you out, specifically attack your baseless accusations/innuendo, and NOT get deleted or banned. however, if you lie, make baseless accusations, or just start getting repetitive with your posts/rants - your posts will be deleted and eventually you will be banned as it does nothing but clutter up the board.
when Jaynes and Adamson started HJOE through the reverse merger of the shell - neither of them had any experience in public companies or understanding of the toxic lenders. they were doing $1-2MM in revenues on Hangover shots alone when the PLN fiasco crushed their cash flow and growth and put them in the financial tail spin that led them into the spiral. using the argument that "they knew what they were getting into/in bed with so they are just as guilty as the lenders" will not fly in this case or on this board.
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