LEHNQ Discussion 08/18/2014 08:30:12 $LEHNQ
It's all interpretation, but words matter imo .
Quote:
Quote:
Under the new Lehman plan, holders of unsecured debt from the parent company would receive 21.1 cents on the dollar, down from 21.4 cents under the January plan. Other unsecured creditors would get 19.9 cents on the dollar.
Creditors such as Paulson earlier sought roughly 24 cents on the dollar.
Many unsecured creditors of the Lehman Brothers Special Financing Inc derivatives unit would receive 27.9 cents on the dollar. These creditors include large banks that had been Lehman trading partners, as well as hedge funds.
Holders of commercial paper, a type of short-term debt, could recover 48.4 cents or 55.7 cents on the dollar.
Lehman has said creditors have roughly $322 billion of allowed claims, meaning they would on average recover about 20 cents on the dollar.
Allowed claims 322bil. Pro rata clauses after Allowed claims satisfied in full.
For Newbies
LEHNQ, LEHLQ, LHHMQ, LEHKQ
All in the same boat...
,,,,,,,Good Morning guys. MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM UNCLE SAM.
You made me confused again on your question. If you are looking and referring on due to affiliates on the balance sheet table, then you are looking at the wrong place. Those due from and due to affiliates at not the claims. Those are indeed inter company balances.
The claim that you should be looking at is the subject to compromise that only gives you a total.
Yes now you know what i am looking at and believe me i can read it and understand it very well
but i still want to you to go through it again and shed more light on my request (i will copy it and paste it here again)
"toogood have you noticed the Affiliate and the Affiliate Guarantee claims against LBHI (which are higher class of course than 10B)?? they are adding up to the 200B liabilities that you and Gus always talk about right?? where are these claims going to at the end??mmmmm? and check the same against LCPI,LBSF and others....those (or most of them) don't go as receivables at the end to LBHI??mmmmm??"
Follow up;
Remember, this is a rough estimate because the numbers are only from the distribution table that does not include other things or expenses.
Anyway, those numbers are good enough to see that there is a huge amount of deficit.
It will be more accurate if we used the balance sheet table.
Ana, I see now where you looking at. It is the claims update table in page 29.
The table will show you the claim is 341.2B, less 65.3B distribution.. The net claim is 275.9B.
Like I said on my first reply, The fifth distribution is not yet reflected in March. So you have to add about 16B to the distributed 65.3B, equals to 81.3B. Then you subtract the 81.3B to 341.2B, equals to net claim of 259.9B.
The deficit then is 259.9B minus remaining asset of about 43B, that will give you a deficit of about 216.9B.
I can't get what you meant. Are you looking at the balance sheet itself?
The balance sheet will show you that the remaining asset (balance)is a negative of more than 200B or 224B ( I don't have it in front of me). It is the difference between asset and liability. You also have to put the fifth distribution of about -16B into account because it is not reflected yet in March.
Let me know if you understand what I'm saying.
Toogood maybe it was not 200B after all!!! or at least great amount was just "Funny Money"
insert-text-here
That is peculiar.....I wonder what their plans are also.
daisy, not sure, but, in one of cottons posts it was stated, I will guess july 15th.
Anyway thats close enough.
This is turning out to be one caraaaazy play.
My wand wave to me before siegfried and roy show up with one of thier tigers.
BTW!!!! THIS POST JUST PUSHED US TO SPOT 3 ON THE HOTTEST BOARDS
wand wave, wand wave, wand wave, wand wave.
Insider trading?
Typical...reminds me of wamu
Anyway, if this is the case, CTS are probably golden with JPM behind the scenes working the strings.
Its either you in or you are out at this point. We all talked all the scenarios to death and the remaining ones are the ones who are in for the NOLs. NOLs are going to be huge. There is really not much more new to say except NOLS NOLS NOLs.
My seat belt is fasten in the ac Gus bus... To da moon guster.
This really looks compelling there might be a sep/oct distribution to 10B/CTS:
Any insight on the cut off or record date to qualify for the upcoming distribution? The record date may have already closed explaining the lack of upward price movement on the CTS.
Even if the cut off date closed and buyers starting today won't be able to participate in a sep/oct distribution, the official notice (btw way this notice is posted on Lehman's epiq system), considering there will be expected future payments! It may be worthwhile to snag some more shares at this price level as a speculative investment imo!
Correction --- to CTS, not OBS
over 14,500 reads today, that is crazy!!!
I'm not sure where this comes from, we are a small group that knows the payout is near..
Who let the cat out of the bag?
gonna get some big money in the next two months!!!
top 5 now..!
Isn't it also worth bolding the sentence that follows?...
“That such a distribution is even possible represents an extraordinary achievement that was far from certain when the liquidation began. We expect additional distributions to unsecured general creditors, while maintaining appropriate reserves and protecting claimants’ interests and due process rights.”
That's the kicker imo. We expect ADDITIONAL distributions to UNSECURED creditors... Warrants a wow in my book.
This could be proof of my conspiracy theory that those senior creditors who had rights to vote on the POR also loaded their boats with unsecured debt that was trading at pennies on the dollar. They agreed to what appeared like a 75% hair cut at the senior/higher debt level (or no hair cut at the secured level) and then did the unspeakable, diverted the remaining assets from other senior/higher debt holder who agreed to satisfied in full at 17-30% recovery rates. We're dealing with mega billions here; I don't believe those debt holders who formed majority approval of POR just two years ago are currently scratching their heads asking "how did this happen?! Recovery for unsecured creditors?!" Heck.... They ARE the unsecured creditors, perhaps even OBS stakeholders, that will make off like bandits at the expense of other dumbfounded senior creditors who are dissatisfied to now be "satisfied in full"
Lesson learned: This isn't a case of big fish eats little fish...closer to fast fish eats slow fish...but more precisely conniving fish eats dumb fish... Lol
Hope we can ride the coat tails of these conniving fish.
Long live CTS, preferreds, and commons.
It's all interpretation, but words matter imo .
Quote:
Quote:
Under the new Lehman plan, holders of unsecured debt from the parent company would receive 21.1 cents on the dollar, down from 21.4 cents under the January plan. Other unsecured creditors would get 19.9 cents on the dollar.
Creditors such as Paulson earlier sought roughly 24 cents on the dollar.
Many unsecured creditors of the Lehman Brothers Special Financing Inc derivatives unit would receive 27.9 cents on the dollar. These creditors include large banks that had been Lehman trading partners, as well as hedge funds.
Holders of commercial paper, a type of short-term debt, could recover 48.4 cents or 55.7 cents on the dollar.
Lehman has said creditors have roughly $322 billion of allowed claims, meaning they would on average recover about 20 cents on the dollar.
Allowed claims 322bil. Pro rata clauses after Allowed claims satisfied in full.
For Newbies
LEHNQ, LEHLQ, LHHMQ, LEHKQ
All in the same boat...
,,,,,,,Good Morning guys. MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM UNCLE SAM.
You made me confused again on your question. If you are looking and referring on due to affiliates on the balance sheet table, then you are looking at the wrong place. Those due from and due to affiliates at not the claims. Those are indeed inter company balances.
The claim that you should be looking at is the subject to compromise that only gives you a total.
Yes now you know what i am looking at and believe me i can read it and understand it very well
but i still want to you to go through it again and shed more light on my request (i will copy it and paste it here again)
"toogood have you noticed the Affiliate and the Affiliate Guarantee claims against LBHI (which are higher class of course than 10B)?? they are adding up to the 200B liabilities that you and Gus always talk about right?? where are these claims going to at the end??mmmmm? and check the same against LCPI,LBSF and others....those (or most of them) don't go as receivables at the end to LBHI??mmmmm??"
Follow up;
Remember, this is a rough estimate because the numbers are only from the distribution table that does not include other things or expenses.
Anyway, those numbers are good enough to see that there is a huge amount of deficit.
It will be more accurate if we used the balance sheet table.
Ana, I see now where you looking at. It is the claims update table in page 29.
The table will show you the claim is 341.2B, less 65.3B distribution.. The net claim is 275.9B.
Like I said on my first reply, The fifth distribution is not yet reflected in March. So you have to add about 16B to the distributed 65.3B, equals to 81.3B. Then you subtract the 81.3B to 341.2B, equals to net claim of 259.9B.
The deficit then is 259.9B minus remaining asset of about 43B, that will give you a deficit of about 216.9B.
I can't get what you meant. Are you looking at the balance sheet itself?
The balance sheet will show you that the remaining asset (balance)is a negative of more than 200B or 224B ( I don't have it in front of me). It is the difference between asset and liability. You also have to put the fifth distribution of about -16B into account because it is not reflected yet in March.
Let me know if you understand what I'm saying.
Toogood maybe it was not 200B after all!!! or at least great amount was just "Funny Money"
insert-text-here
That is peculiar.....I wonder what their plans are also.
daisy, not sure, but, in one of cottons posts it was stated, I will guess july 15th.
Anyway thats close enough.
This is turning out to be one caraaaazy play.
My wand wave to me before siegfried and roy show up with one of thier tigers.
BTW!!!! THIS POST JUST PUSHED US TO SPOT 3 ON THE HOTTEST BOARDS
wand wave, wand wave, wand wave, wand wave.
Insider trading?
Typical...reminds me of wamu
Anyway, if this is the case, CTS are probably golden with JPM behind the scenes working the strings.
Its either you in or you are out at this point. We all talked all the scenarios to death and the remaining ones are the ones who are in for the NOLs. NOLs are going to be huge. There is really not much more new to say except NOLS NOLS NOLs.
My seat belt is fasten in the ac Gus bus... To da moon guster.
This really looks compelling there might be a sep/oct distribution to 10B/CTS:
Any insight on the cut off or record date to qualify for the upcoming distribution? The record date may have already closed explaining the lack of upward price movement on the CTS.
Even if the cut off date closed and buyers starting today won't be able to participate in a sep/oct distribution, the official notice (btw way this notice is posted on Lehman's epiq system), considering there will be expected future payments! It may be worthwhile to snag some more shares at this price level as a speculative investment imo!
Correction --- to CTS, not OBS
over 14,500 reads today, that is crazy!!!
I'm not sure where this comes from, we are a small group that knows the payout is near..
Who let the cat out of the bag?
gonna get some big money in the next two months!!!
top 5 now..!
Isn't it also worth bolding the sentence that follows?...
“That such a distribution is even possible represents an extraordinary achievement that was far from certain when the liquidation began. We expect additional distributions to unsecured general creditors, while maintaining appropriate reserves and protecting claimants’ interests and due process rights.”
That's the kicker imo. We expect ADDITIONAL distributions to UNSECURED creditors... Warrants a wow in my book.
This could be proof of my conspiracy theory that those senior creditors who had rights to vote on the POR also loaded their boats with unsecured debt that was trading at pennies on the dollar. They agreed to what appeared like a 75% hair cut at the senior/higher debt level (or no hair cut at the secured level) and then did the unspeakable, diverted the remaining assets from other senior/higher debt holder who agreed to satisfied in full at 17-30% recovery rates. We're dealing with mega billions here; I don't believe those debt holders who formed majority approval of POR just two years ago are currently scratching their heads asking "how did this happen?! Recovery for unsecured creditors?!" Heck.... They ARE the unsecured creditors, perhaps even OBS stakeholders, that will make off like bandits at the expense of other dumbfounded senior creditors who are dissatisfied to now be "satisfied in full"
Lesson learned: This isn't a case of big fish eats little fish...closer to fast fish eats slow fish...but more precisely conniving fish eats dumb fish... Lol
Hope we can ride the coat tails of these conniving fish.
Long live CTS, preferreds, and commons.
