LEHNQ News 08/16/2014 23:30:03 $LEHNQ
One Word.. Exactly!
The entire group just voted on extending the stay on August 12, 2014. After their meeting, not one single creditor filed an objection to the stay extension. This is the exact same way that satisfied in full will be determined in this bankruptcy.
It will be in the best interest of the chapter 11 Estate when satisfied in full is achieved in this bankruptcy.
I like the artwork below too!
Perhaps, we will never know; since the stay was extended on August 12, 2014; how many CT holders were going to go after JPMC in state court, as codebtor with LBHI, for their principal and back interest.
JPMC assert claims against LBHI for underwriting the same set of securities listed in Exhibit C with our CTs. Had the stay extension failed on August 12, 2014, JPMC would have paid our CT claims off in state court and pressed LBHI to pay their asserted underwriting claims. This is one reason why LBHI want to settle all of its creditors claim against JPMC before the stay is lifted. To prevent us CT holders from going after JPMC as codebtor.
Note: The leading underwriters are on the hook for the CTs guarantee agreement: JPMSI and Bear Stearns.
****
Quote:
"In addition, JPMSI and its Affiliates, each as an entity that may be liable with LBHI to a creditor that has not filed a proof of claim, hereby files pursuant to Bankruptcy Rule 3005(a) a proof of claim on behalf of each such creditor covering claims with respect to which JPMSI and the affiliate of JPMSI, as applicable, is a codebtor with LBHI. The name of each such creditor is not currently known"
Satisfied in full = When the Debtors and Board of Directors and US Trustee feel like the creditors are satisfied in full (a group decision and vote).
+++++++++++
"The board of directors and US trustee vote...... Blah blah blah.,,,"
///\\
Hmmm.. Anytime they feel like it huh?
1. This is the real proof of ignorance for not even understanding the creditors right to collect their money.
2. No knowledge of creditors power to claim or to take over (a coup) the entire company in case of a breach of contract by LBHI.
3. Or even if he think that it is possible, he must show a proof of such decision...
4. He is now changing the "satisfied in full " from the 65B mark into the debtors and board's decision ignoring the creditors right.
HEY HESTHEMAN! .. WHAT ABOUT YOUR POSITION??
What do you mean?
Now I'm stumped. I don't see how CTs fit in there.
If you are asking about "THESE general unsecured creditors" I assume you are talking about those getting the $4.6 billion Sept. distribution.
LBI has its own gen. uns. creditors that will be receiving a payment in Sept. However, LBHI is also a rather large gen. uns. cred. of LBI and will be expecting some of that Sept. payout.
If you are asking who is a general unsecured creditor of LBHI then:
"1.60 General Unsecured Claim means, (a) in the case of LBHI, any Claim other than an Administrative Expense Claim, a Priority Tax Claim, a Priority Non-Tax Claim, a Secured Claim, a Senior Unsecured Claim, a Senior Affiliate Claim, a Senior Affiliate Guarantee Claim, a Senior Third-Party Guarantee Claim, an Affiliate Claim, a Third-Party Guarantee Claim, a Subordinated Claim or a Section 510(b) Claim,..."
And then you can match those up to the following to see which classes are general unsecured and I think you are left with just Class 7:
LBHI Class 1 – Priority Non-Tax Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 2 – Secured Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 3 – Senior Unsecured Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 4A – Senior Affiliate Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 4B – Senior Affiliate Guarantee Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 5 – Senior Third-Party Guarantee Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 6A – Convenience Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 6B – Convenience Guarantee Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 7 – General Unsecured Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 8 – Affiliate Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 9A – Third-Party Guarantee Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 9B – Third-Party Guarantee Claims of the Racers
Trusts against LBHI
LBHI Class 10A – Subordinated Class 10A Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 10B – Subordinated Class 10B Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 10C – Subordinated Class 10C Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 11 – Section 510(b) Claims against LBHI
"...or (b) in the case of each Subsidiary Debtor, any Claim other than an Administrative Expense Claim, a Priority Tax Claim, a Priority Non-Tax Claim, a Secured Claim or an Affiliate Claim."
But I don't know if LBI is a Subsidiary Debtor.
Sorry, of classes 1-11 as defined int the POR...who are these gen unsecured creditors.
Quote:
Od 1-11,
?
Od 1-11, whom are they?
The last paragraph of your post is my point exactly.
I am sure that Cotton will have a better answer than I do but I'll try.
LBI's Trustee is paying LBI's unsecured creditors back $4.6 billion in the Sept. distribution.
We are LBHI. LBHI is an unsecured creditor of LBI's with at least $3 billion in claims.
So LBHI will be getting some more money in September to add to the $8.3 billion "unexpectedly" recovered since April 2014.
LBHI's 6th distribution will be coming October 2nd.
As far as "Wouldn't they fight that tooth and nail?", they already agreed to take less. It is a bankruptcy after all, they could've gotten nothing. They can't renegotiate what they agreed on 2 years ago just because the economy has improved.
Quote:
"In addition, JPMSI and its Affiliates, each as an entity that may be liable with LBHI to a creditor that has not filed a proof of claim, hereby files pursuant to Bankruptcy Rule 3005(a) a proof of claim on behalf of each such creditor covering claims with respect to which JPMSI and the affiliate of JPMSI, as applicable, is a codebtor with LBHI. The name of each such creditor is not currently known"
I've always liked this post.
Now, where in the POR does it cover JPMSI as a codebtor?
I know. Read,read,read.
Puddintane?? That's exactly how I called you guys. I even made a analogy of the three monkeys. So can we say now it's "vice versa"?
Ok, but the POR isk chock-full of deninitions, and it clearly states that the Ct's and OBS for that matter, once all Allowed claims for all those classes 1-11 are satisfied in full, are entitled to pro-rata, we know the rest. Right? Hasn't the trustee just said that it was insurmountable and incredible that this 4.6bil dollar dist to general unseccured creditors are gettin anything, let alone 4.5 billion freaking dollars, no? How could thta happen if the classes above us were not already deemed to be satisfied in full? Wouldn't they fight that tooth and nail? Billions we r talking. Or am I misinterpreting things? An honest and sincere question? We all want to make money here, that's the end goal. My god, their is a huge multi mutli billion dollar NOL that is so easily discounted here, it amazes me. All my opinion, but billions of billions. Gee, nah, nobody wants to utilize that to protect future profits lol. GLTA.
I know who you are now, Puddintane.
Quote:
"If you will bring that up again, my answer will be the same.."
Not confused. But I believe you are the one that is confused.. If you will bring that up again, my answer will be the same..
Satisfied in full = When the Debtors and Board of Directors and US Trustee feel like the creditors are satisfied in full (a group decision and vote).
Same as not filing the scheduling order to lift the stay by July 28, 2014! They have all the power in this bankruptcy.
In all seriousness, are you and Toogood confusing the Disclosure Statement which doesn't mention how 10B will start seeing money:
"Holders of Allowed Claims in LBHI Class 10B are not expected to receive any Distributions on account of such Claims. Any Distributions that would have been paid to such Claims are automatically reallocated to holders of Allowed Senior Unsecured Claims against LBHI, Allowed Senior Affiliate Claims against LBHI, Allowed Senior Affiliate Guarantee Claims against LBHI and Allowed Senior Third-Party Guarantee Claims against LBHI against LBHI pursuant to provisions of the documents underlying the Class 10B Subordinated Notes."
With the POR which does show how 10B will start seeing money:
"Holders of Allowed Claims in LBHI Class 10B shall not receive any Distributions on account of such Claims unless and until all holders of Allowed Claims in LBHI Class 3, LBHI Class 4A, LBHI Class 4B and LBHI Class 5 are satisfied in full, in which case each holder of an Allowed Claim in LBHI Class 10B shall receive its Pro Rata Share of (i) Available Cash from LBHI and (ii) Subordinated Class 10C Distribution."
Maybe this is why the two of you are confused?
One Word.. Exactly!
The entire group just voted on extending the stay on August 12, 2014. After their meeting, not one single creditor filed an objection to the stay extension. This is the exact same way that satisfied in full will be determined in this bankruptcy.
It will be in the best interest of the chapter 11 Estate when satisfied in full is achieved in this bankruptcy.
I like the artwork below too!
Perhaps, we will never know; since the stay was extended on August 12, 2014; how many CT holders were going to go after JPMC in state court, as codebtor with LBHI, for their principal and back interest.
JPMC assert claims against LBHI for underwriting the same set of securities listed in Exhibit C with our CTs. Had the stay extension failed on August 12, 2014, JPMC would have paid our CT claims off in state court and pressed LBHI to pay their asserted underwriting claims. This is one reason why LBHI want to settle all of its creditors claim against JPMC before the stay is lifted. To prevent us CT holders from going after JPMC as codebtor.
Note: The leading underwriters are on the hook for the CTs guarantee agreement: JPMSI and Bear Stearns.
****
Quote:
"In addition, JPMSI and its Affiliates, each as an entity that may be liable with LBHI to a creditor that has not filed a proof of claim, hereby files pursuant to Bankruptcy Rule 3005(a) a proof of claim on behalf of each such creditor covering claims with respect to which JPMSI and the affiliate of JPMSI, as applicable, is a codebtor with LBHI. The name of each such creditor is not currently known"
Satisfied in full = When the Debtors and Board of Directors and US Trustee feel like the creditors are satisfied in full (a group decision and vote).
+++++++++++
"The board of directors and US trustee vote...... Blah blah blah.,,,"
///\\
Hmmm.. Anytime they feel like it huh?
1. This is the real proof of ignorance for not even understanding the creditors right to collect their money.
2. No knowledge of creditors power to claim or to take over (a coup) the entire company in case of a breach of contract by LBHI.
3. Or even if he think that it is possible, he must show a proof of such decision...
4. He is now changing the "satisfied in full " from the 65B mark into the debtors and board's decision ignoring the creditors right.
HEY HESTHEMAN! .. WHAT ABOUT YOUR POSITION??
What do you mean?
Now I'm stumped. I don't see how CTs fit in there.
If you are asking about "THESE general unsecured creditors" I assume you are talking about those getting the $4.6 billion Sept. distribution.
LBI has its own gen. uns. creditors that will be receiving a payment in Sept. However, LBHI is also a rather large gen. uns. cred. of LBI and will be expecting some of that Sept. payout.
If you are asking who is a general unsecured creditor of LBHI then:
"1.60 General Unsecured Claim means, (a) in the case of LBHI, any Claim other than an Administrative Expense Claim, a Priority Tax Claim, a Priority Non-Tax Claim, a Secured Claim, a Senior Unsecured Claim, a Senior Affiliate Claim, a Senior Affiliate Guarantee Claim, a Senior Third-Party Guarantee Claim, an Affiliate Claim, a Third-Party Guarantee Claim, a Subordinated Claim or a Section 510(b) Claim,..."
And then you can match those up to the following to see which classes are general unsecured and I think you are left with just Class 7:
LBHI Class 1 – Priority Non-Tax Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 2 – Secured Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 3 – Senior Unsecured Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 4A – Senior Affiliate Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 4B – Senior Affiliate Guarantee Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 5 – Senior Third-Party Guarantee Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 6A – Convenience Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 6B – Convenience Guarantee Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 7 – General Unsecured Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 8 – Affiliate Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 9A – Third-Party Guarantee Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 9B – Third-Party Guarantee Claims of the Racers
Trusts against LBHI
LBHI Class 10A – Subordinated Class 10A Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 10B – Subordinated Class 10B Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 10C – Subordinated Class 10C Claims against LBHI
LBHI Class 11 – Section 510(b) Claims against LBHI
"...or (b) in the case of each Subsidiary Debtor, any Claim other than an Administrative Expense Claim, a Priority Tax Claim, a Priority Non-Tax Claim, a Secured Claim or an Affiliate Claim."
But I don't know if LBI is a Subsidiary Debtor.
Sorry, of classes 1-11 as defined int the POR...who are these gen unsecured creditors.
Quote:
Od 1-11,
?
Od 1-11, whom are they?
The last paragraph of your post is my point exactly.
I am sure that Cotton will have a better answer than I do but I'll try.
LBI's Trustee is paying LBI's unsecured creditors back $4.6 billion in the Sept. distribution.
We are LBHI. LBHI is an unsecured creditor of LBI's with at least $3 billion in claims.
So LBHI will be getting some more money in September to add to the $8.3 billion "unexpectedly" recovered since April 2014.
LBHI's 6th distribution will be coming October 2nd.
As far as "Wouldn't they fight that tooth and nail?", they already agreed to take less. It is a bankruptcy after all, they could've gotten nothing. They can't renegotiate what they agreed on 2 years ago just because the economy has improved.
Quote:
"In addition, JPMSI and its Affiliates, each as an entity that may be liable with LBHI to a creditor that has not filed a proof of claim, hereby files pursuant to Bankruptcy Rule 3005(a) a proof of claim on behalf of each such creditor covering claims with respect to which JPMSI and the affiliate of JPMSI, as applicable, is a codebtor with LBHI. The name of each such creditor is not currently known"
I've always liked this post.
Now, where in the POR does it cover JPMSI as a codebtor?
I know. Read,read,read.
Puddintane?? That's exactly how I called you guys. I even made a analogy of the three monkeys. So can we say now it's "vice versa"?
Ok, but the POR isk chock-full of deninitions, and it clearly states that the Ct's and OBS for that matter, once all Allowed claims for all those classes 1-11 are satisfied in full, are entitled to pro-rata, we know the rest. Right? Hasn't the trustee just said that it was insurmountable and incredible that this 4.6bil dollar dist to general unseccured creditors are gettin anything, let alone 4.5 billion freaking dollars, no? How could thta happen if the classes above us were not already deemed to be satisfied in full? Wouldn't they fight that tooth and nail? Billions we r talking. Or am I misinterpreting things? An honest and sincere question? We all want to make money here, that's the end goal. My god, their is a huge multi mutli billion dollar NOL that is so easily discounted here, it amazes me. All my opinion, but billions of billions. Gee, nah, nobody wants to utilize that to protect future profits lol. GLTA.
I know who you are now, Puddintane.
Quote:
"If you will bring that up again, my answer will be the same.."
Not confused. But I believe you are the one that is confused.. If you will bring that up again, my answer will be the same..
Satisfied in full = When the Debtors and Board of Directors and US Trustee feel like the creditors are satisfied in full (a group decision and vote).
Same as not filing the scheduling order to lift the stay by July 28, 2014! They have all the power in this bankruptcy.
In all seriousness, are you and Toogood confusing the Disclosure Statement which doesn't mention how 10B will start seeing money:
"Holders of Allowed Claims in LBHI Class 10B are not expected to receive any Distributions on account of such Claims. Any Distributions that would have been paid to such Claims are automatically reallocated to holders of Allowed Senior Unsecured Claims against LBHI, Allowed Senior Affiliate Claims against LBHI, Allowed Senior Affiliate Guarantee Claims against LBHI and Allowed Senior Third-Party Guarantee Claims against LBHI against LBHI pursuant to provisions of the documents underlying the Class 10B Subordinated Notes."
With the POR which does show how 10B will start seeing money:
"Holders of Allowed Claims in LBHI Class 10B shall not receive any Distributions on account of such Claims unless and until all holders of Allowed Claims in LBHI Class 3, LBHI Class 4A, LBHI Class 4B and LBHI Class 5 are satisfied in full, in which case each holder of an Allowed Claim in LBHI Class 10B shall receive its Pro Rata Share of (i) Available Cash from LBHI and (ii) Subordinated Class 10C Distribution."
Maybe this is why the two of you are confused?
