Golfgod, in reply to: (this is actually approaching an intelligent discussion)
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So large man....if gold and silver can be/are manipulated for the sake of the almighty dollar, what makes you say that PTOI isn't ?
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I'll be buying more as the SP is manipulated downwards.
Read More: http://investorshangout.com/post/view?id=2137...z3G63cCfl0
"
Good point. I honestly don't know what controls the prices of base metals. I think someone would have to be an economist, and even then they would all disagree. I thought of Gold as a safe haven, so I expected it to go up when the stock market crashes. If you look at it over the last 20 years, that is just not the case. It has been a steady upward trend. So, I honesty don't know what drives it.
I do know that resource-based companies' fortunes are driven by commodity prices. They make huge investment decisions based on their projections. Commodity prices are also beyond their control. The crash of last summer proved that.
Stock markets are different IMO. They are both markets, the market for Gold is the same as the market for PTOI stock in a sense, but in reality they are much different.
If I believed otherwise I would not be an investor in the first place. I would collect 1% or 2% in my Savings account or something.
I believe here is some market manipulation in the stock markets, and moreso in the OTC. However, it is a minor factor compared to the competency and greed of management. It did not account for a fall from $7.00 to .05.
Now having said that, there are people (plenty of them) who agreed to buy those shares at $7.00. The SEC did not convince them to buy at that level. They were not present when that decision was made. If they let message boards influence them, they made a big mistake. They decided to buy, probably based primarily on the promise of the company and potential profitability. The fact is that there is a ton of information out there on various investments. You can't blame the source. You have to learn to pick and choose your opportunities, or else you should give your money to a mutual fund or advisor.
Some recognized it for what it was, and got out timely. Good for them. They sold as quickly as they could. I have done the same.
I don't mean you as in YOU Golfgod. I am speaking generically.
Those same investors could have sold at $6, $5, $4, $3, $1, $50, $06. They didn't. The only person they have to blame is themselves. If they cannot do that, then they will not be successful in the stock market. Taking losses and profits is part of the game. If you cannot do that, you should not be investing.
So to answer your question, no I don't know for 100% certain that PTOI is being manipulated, but I would think that the chance of that being the major cause of the failure of the SSP is the same as the chance of a good Corporate bond issuer going bankrupt. Like RBC, TD Bank, or BMO. In Canada we have 5 or 6 chartered banks. Our banking system is different. Right now, a good Corporate bond, like RBC debt, pays 5%. It would be ridiculously risk-averse to think that RBC might go bankrupt and that you might lose your money. However, if you are sitting across the table from an Investment Advisor, he CANNOT guarantee you that you will not lose your principal... ridiculous right? The probability is maybe .000..00...1 that RBC will go bankrupt.
However, there are people that think that. There are people (I know some) who refuse to put their money in Corporate Bonds, because they only invest in investments where their Principal is guaranteed. Off to the bank they go and they earn 1 or 2%. I have seen it.
So to answer your question, I think there is a good chance (maybe 10 or 20%), that the price of Gold was manipulated downward in '13. The person in that interview is a member of some Gold lobby group, isn't he? It is highly likely he is being paid then. Then he can be ignored.
The chance of PTOI being manipulated down from what you may think is a respectable price ($5?) is about the same chance as thinking that RBC (the Royal Bank of Canada) might go bankrupt.
That being the case, I think you should put all of your money into a Savings account at some other bank and get 2%.
btw, I am excited by this latest downturn. I have lost maybe 7 or 8% of my portfolio in a capital (unrealized) loss. However, over the last few years I have probably realized double that, maybe triple. I don't keep an exact count. Plus, I focus on dividends. My RoR was 8%.
I can't wait to get to the bank and borrow more money to invest. I suspect my RoR will go up to 10%. That RoR is what matters in the long haul.
Hope that answers your question.
"
So large man....if gold and silver can be/are manipulated for the sake of the almighty dollar, what makes you say that PTOI isn't ?
...
I'll be buying more as the SP is manipulated downwards.
Read More: http://investorshangout.com/post/view?id=2137...z3G63cCfl0
"
Good point. I honestly don't know what controls the prices of base metals. I think someone would have to be an economist, and even then they would all disagree. I thought of Gold as a safe haven, so I expected it to go up when the stock market crashes. If you look at it over the last 20 years, that is just not the case. It has been a steady upward trend. So, I honesty don't know what drives it.
I do know that resource-based companies' fortunes are driven by commodity prices. They make huge investment decisions based on their projections. Commodity prices are also beyond their control. The crash of last summer proved that.
Stock markets are different IMO. They are both markets, the market for Gold is the same as the market for PTOI stock in a sense, but in reality they are much different.
If I believed otherwise I would not be an investor in the first place. I would collect 1% or 2% in my Savings account or something.
I believe here is some market manipulation in the stock markets, and moreso in the OTC. However, it is a minor factor compared to the competency and greed of management. It did not account for a fall from $7.00 to .05.
Now having said that, there are people (plenty of them) who agreed to buy those shares at $7.00. The SEC did not convince them to buy at that level. They were not present when that decision was made. If they let message boards influence them, they made a big mistake. They decided to buy, probably based primarily on the promise of the company and potential profitability. The fact is that there is a ton of information out there on various investments. You can't blame the source. You have to learn to pick and choose your opportunities, or else you should give your money to a mutual fund or advisor.
Some recognized it for what it was, and got out timely. Good for them. They sold as quickly as they could. I have done the same.
I don't mean you as in YOU Golfgod. I am speaking generically.
Those same investors could have sold at $6, $5, $4, $3, $1, $50, $06. They didn't. The only person they have to blame is themselves. If they cannot do that, then they will not be successful in the stock market. Taking losses and profits is part of the game. If you cannot do that, you should not be investing.
So to answer your question, no I don't know for 100% certain that PTOI is being manipulated, but I would think that the chance of that being the major cause of the failure of the SSP is the same as the chance of a good Corporate bond issuer going bankrupt. Like RBC, TD Bank, or BMO. In Canada we have 5 or 6 chartered banks. Our banking system is different. Right now, a good Corporate bond, like RBC debt, pays 5%. It would be ridiculously risk-averse to think that RBC might go bankrupt and that you might lose your money. However, if you are sitting across the table from an Investment Advisor, he CANNOT guarantee you that you will not lose your principal... ridiculous right? The probability is maybe .000..00...1 that RBC will go bankrupt.
However, there are people that think that. There are people (I know some) who refuse to put their money in Corporate Bonds, because they only invest in investments where their Principal is guaranteed. Off to the bank they go and they earn 1 or 2%. I have seen it.
So to answer your question, I think there is a good chance (maybe 10 or 20%), that the price of Gold was manipulated downward in '13. The person in that interview is a member of some Gold lobby group, isn't he? It is highly likely he is being paid then. Then he can be ignored.
The chance of PTOI being manipulated down from what you may think is a respectable price ($5?) is about the same chance as thinking that RBC (the Royal Bank of Canada) might go bankrupt.
That being the case, I think you should put all of your money into a Savings account at some other bank and get 2%.
btw, I am excited by this latest downturn. I have lost maybe 7 or 8% of my portfolio in a capital (unrealized) loss. However, over the last few years I have probably realized double that, maybe triple. I don't keep an exact count. Plus, I focus on dividends. My RoR was 8%.
I can't wait to get to the bank and borrow more money to invest. I suspect my RoR will go up to 10%. That RoR is what matters in the long haul.
Hope that answers your question.
