it helps me a lot. thankyou. I'm with atd and as of yesterday i couldn't buy any pvec thru them and again, I didn't understand their explanation as to why not. Something about logistics. What the hell does that mean. Most stocks that a penny player gets into are pretty point blank. You generally have a pretty good idea of what you have gotten yourself into. I will admit, this one has me buffaloed. In any case if I'm taking a loss it won't be till dec. for tax purposes. so I'm giving it that long.